Видео

Naahhh it's awesome. Learn, Adapt and overcome. One of the best fights. I love going in multiplayer helping ppl. Then just to see us dying to not meeting DPS check. What a lovely fight. Words pass down from generations, gid gud XD

34:32 I believe thats what happened with monster hunter frontier as well.

Its a good fight, but IB Fatalis is the greatest fight

For me, I like Iceborne Alatreon in spite of Escaton Judgement. I think it’s a great fight with a poorly implemented instakill mechanic that unfortunately asks me to play sub-optimally. Even after slaying him 100 times, my best hunt times against him were from simply ignoring the mechanic entirely and brute forcing him with a Fatalis weapon.

I absolutely hate most of these complaints as they all can be reduced to "I got my ass handed to me! Nerf the monster! I'm playing casually and I don't care for people who want challenge!" I absolutely love Alatreon and I actually prefer his dynamics with EJ to Fatty's plain 30 minutes and 3 phases for many reasons And uhh it is more than possible to kill both Fatty without breaking horns and Alatreon without element btw How can you even seriously mention Gaismagorm's wall climb? It's a DPS check on a freaking turret section in a monster hunter game 😂

Laughing for over an hour at steam reviews and reddit comment from people that use the raging brachy weap is still my most exciting time in life

Still can't believe its possible to survive full power Escaton Judgement

Meanwhile me doing Altreon for 12hours straight learning it and eventually we just took a bunch of widerange skills with us and healed through Escaton by force. From what I gathered it wasn't such that people didn't know what to do. Pretty early on in a random group lobbies people realized they needed to do elemental damage. But many players were just coming from the back end of Iceborne meta which was very Raw focused and no-one really had any elemental weapons or sets specifically for it. At best alot of people managed toonly bring the Kjärr Weapons from Kulve, but without specifically having a high elemental sets. And combine that with laying with randoms, it quickly became a shitshow because not everyone was able to keep uptime with their weapon consistently. I personally realized that the best option I had, ws to bring Thunder element, because that way, regardless of which state Alatreon was in, I atleast was able to push the elemental threshold when others couldn't. And majority of the time people did not break the horns, so Alatreon was always switching from Ice to Fire, so it was almost a necessity to have someone able to keep uptime on elemental topples if possible. So what we ended up doing is; Be able to do the 1st elemental topple, and heal with relative safety. But it quickly became problematic after that if there was no horn break. So alot of it was realiant on 1 player having thunder at that point and once Alatreon goes Dragon active and everyone is able to deal elemental again, it was a hit or miss if we got the 2nd topple before 2nd escaton. But for that we did have the friendship wide-range system which helped us to stay alive by force. the funny part about this is that afterwards we had killed Alatreon just 2 times or so, I brought a friend who didn't know anything about the fight into it and we killed Alatreon with only him using a raw weapon while the rest of us dealt with the elemental stuff. And it was somewhat funny, considering how we struggled in random groups for so long.

Another ice elder dragon wasnt the orochi kirin ?

I think the thing that legitimately made EJ the absolute worst was the timing of it, at the time of release we had the release of Golden Rathian which had Poison weapons with the best Raw, then we got Safi weapons which despite having elemental in them it turned out that the most meta weapons were Blast weapons, then Raging Brachydios which were again Blast, the most meta weapons were status effects and suddenly they're asking us to ditch those Meta weapons that still worked for 99% of the monsters to make a build SPECIFICALLY for Alatreon, something a lot of people didn't want, didn't like and weren't ready for.

I would argue that one of the biggest issues with Escaton that wasn't covered here is that dealing with it is wildly weapon dependent. Saying that the DPS check is easy to beat while showing footage of you playing longsword kinda defeats your point. Longsword's standard playstyle is also its highest element playstyle, so you can just... play the weapon as long as you're using an elemental option. The modifiers also did help the heavier weapons, but claiming they made it equally easy for all weapon types is untrue. Hammer and lance both have a modifier of 1, but lance hits vastly more often and has a far easier time meeting the DPS check. Switch axe and dual blades also have the same modifier of 0.6 - despite hitting with vastly different frequencies. Greatsword has a modifier of 1.1, meaning it should be hitting slightly less than twice as often as dual blades. Anyone who's played those weapons can tell you that's not the case. And that's not even getting into the garbage with CB phials. Then there's gunlance, whose damage is almost entirely comprised of shellings, which are not impacted by the weapon's elemental damage (they have a miniscule fire portion, but that cannot be buffed in any way and is not impactful whatsoever). Beating Alatreon with gunlance requires you to switch to a low-damage poke-based playstyle simply to be able to beat Escaton. Hammer finds itself in a similar boat, needing to avoid using its strongest attacks in order to deal enough elemental damage. For any weapon like this, dealing that much less DPS means they'll have to stay in the fight far longer, and at that point the inability to prevent the 4th Escaton is a real threat. Bowguns have a hard cap on how much elemental damage they can deal on account of limited ammo. Even with crafting extra ammo types, they can still very easily get into a situation where they simply cannot beat the DPS check no matter what they do. This is far from my only issue with EJ (Ala's tendency to stall during the 3-minute period you have to deal elemental damage, the complete reliance on out-of-game info, etc...) but this is probably the most glaring one to me, and it rubbed me the wrong why that you claimed beating it is easy when you were essentially playing on easy mode. Not every weapon has that kind of privilege, and a lot of the people who struggled to beat EJ were far more likely to have been playing the weapons least able to combat it than simply incapable themselves. Tl;dr the difficulty of beating Escaton varied wildly by weapon and the weapons most impacted by it had a harder time with the other parts of the fight as a result.

Had they made it so you needed to break the Horn instead of using Elements, it wouldve been much better received...

I think its a combination of things. It forced elemental on us after beating Raw Damage on us for the whole game. This made elemental even more of a joke as it reduced it further to "That thing you use to kill Alatreon". 2. Lack of information. Sure the Handler yells at you but the game gives no indication that every weapon has an extra modifier against Alatreon. Also why does SAED have a .1 modifier??? 3. Unavoidable damage. You can play flawlessly and topple him and whatnot and STILL take unavoidable damage. It goes against the skill of avoiding damage in fights. 4. Escaton Judgement and Alatreon are now permanently entwined. If he ever comes back, people will moan about EJ returning. And if he returns but EJ doesnt, people will complain about the absence of EJ. Also why does the game put emphasis on his horns as the source of his poeer, but his legs have a better Elemental HZV?

Counterpoint: Farcaster

in my case this fight just turned gameplay into a boring chore and made me drop it entirely, it’s a shame that it managed to kill all momentum the game had after the peak raging brachy fight, and i’m kinda sad i’ll never get to experience fatalis, but having to grind siege quests that no one’s playing anymore is fucked

I used to HATE EJ. I was stuck on Alatreon for months or even a year (main quest not dawns.). Once I eventually beat him and started fighting him more, I started to actually love his fight. I get EJ made a ton mad (including myself) but once I started to realize he's completely unique from every other monster as elemental damage makes him stand out more (to me at least). One of my favorite fights in IB.

My main issue with Alatreon is on how you aren’t given an opportunity to learn him. I’m fine with fights forcing you to master them to clear but the fact the game itself needs to bring up a menu before the hunt and tell you EXACTLY how you’re supposed to win is a big no for me. Much of the fun in MH is just figuring it out but Alatreon wasn’t designed in a way that you could naturally do it so they just spoil the fun right away. Add in the modifiers and the fact the element system in the series is way too basic and really not capable of being used in complex ways like this. Maybe in a future title Alatreon could work better in a revamped element system that actually feels more impact and useful for every weapon to the point you don’t need to modify core game mechanics to make something work

While watching this I solod alatreon with all Raging Bracky armor and Beotodus charge blade. Broke both horns, survived both escaton judgements. The issue I believe most people face is just not knowing how to punish alatreons moves and how to dodge the un punishable attacks. You get more than enough time even without the best weapons and armor. Ive only ever had difficulty trying to duo or quad Alatreon because the elemental DPS check is substantially higher for multiplayer. Deff a much easier fight solo.

My biggest gripe is how forced you are to use certain weapons, like any other monsters (timer aside) can be beat with almost any weapon, but Alatreon FORCES you to fight him the same way and if you don't do enough dmg you just die, it's especially punishing if you lobby with randoms and they shy away just enough elemental damage and you auto fail the quest on the spot

You can no damage Alatreon if you kill it before it can cast Escaton Judgment. Just use Pierce HBG. Frostcraft Greatsword or SnS can do it fairly well also. Any weapon can it's just harder for some. Escaton Judgment is not only optional with enough dps, but it's not even guaranteed to 1 shot. If you deal enough elemental damage you can topple Ala up to 3 times before the Judgment. The 3rd topple is a shutdown that almost completely neuders it. I believe it only deals about 150 damage, which you can survive with any points of Health Boost or the Fatalis set bonus Transcendence. Also there are other options to increase your elemental damage you missed, such as Critical Element from Velkhana gear (different from True Critical Element on Silver Rathalos and USJ gear) Elemental Acceleration from Namielle gear, Hunting Horn melodies and the Dragonproof Mantle. Also you can just brute force Alatreon by eating carts to the Judgment and still killing it in the end, you just need to do well enough. I'm not playing Devil's advocate or anything, I like Alatreon and EJ but I understand why others don't. I'm just pointing out stuff that was missed.

Still better than kushala

I remember the release. I'd been excited to revisit this monster in World ever since my first experience with him in Tri. It's true that he was in other games but World had revamped all the fights, so it was genuinely exciting to check out what they did with him. Then I learned I would need to make some elemental set to deal with his big fuck you move, which I'd never wanted to do, not just because elemental was less good in World, but because I like using tons of different weapon classes for variety. Making tons of elemental weapons even in just the weapon classes that treated elemental more favorably was a hassle. Furthermore I wasn't into grinding Safi and Kulve. So I just cobbled together a very basic bitch elemental set with the stuff I had on hand (My main loop was just randomly fighting shit for fun at that point so I had a bunch of crap lying around) and it managed to do the trick, but it left a really bad taste in my mouth because my excitement had been subverted by this mechanic forcing me to put together a set I didn't want to use. I imagine it was worse for the people who actually had to grind out the materials to make stuff. Having to build specifically for a mechanic like that took a lot of enjoyment out of a fight that otherwise was good, at least for me. Beating it wasn't the problem, but the, by my viewpoint, arbitrary stuff I had to make and run was what felt bad to me. I honestly feel like he wouldn't have gotten a quarter of the flack he did if his damage check wasn't limited to elemental damage, even given that it's an easy check to meet if you understand the mechanics around it. In comparison I wouldn't be understating it when I say Iceborne Fatalis was one of the top fights for me in the entire franchise. I should really get around to playing Rise and seeing how it measures up in the hard fights department.

First off, amazing video with great context of before and after Alatreon's release!! As a 5th fleeter, I found Alatreon a challenging, yet fun fight but never really understood all the hate/criticism. Since I played through world/iceborne just this year, I had all the knowledge of the game being out for 6 years, which was a massive help, especially for Alatreon. Going into the fight, I already knew the mechanics, what gear to bring, and when/where to attack for the elemental topple and horn breaks. I think your compilation of all the main criticisms of the fight, the explanations, and the rebuttals gave me a great perspective from others who may have gone into the fight blind and/or been veterans of the series. This perspective was hard to gain from a few paragraph post on reddit or other online forums, but was detailed excellently in this hour long video, but such is the difference of the two mediums. I still think Alatreon is a good, enjoyable challenge, but the criticisms of it are much easier to understand and sympathize with.

Eschaton Judgment is the worst move in Monster Hunter. Idea of surviving by doing elemental damage Fine. Idea having Heal mid draining Damage with very specific healing items and having timing as requirement that is where draw the line. Other than that rest the fight is fine. In action games I never like idea unavoidable Major Damge like Eschaton Judment and will never see them as Fair. Instant kill are fine as long they can be avoided or prevented. Lunastra is one my least favorite hunts MHW for similar reason of Big AOE Drain but it more avoidable than Eschaton Judgment. Now back to Elden Ring dlc I Go.

after finishing the video now I ask the question, where is the middle ground? iceborne had a much more satisfying feeling to beat alatreon and fatalis since most people fought them before minmaxing their sets, however some fought them way too early which caused an uproar while sunbreak has a more linear difficulty spike, you got better after each hunt so even the hardest of challenges never felt as challenging for the first few times, you didn't even have to master the hunt as you had to do in iceborne and finally the grind was too much probably less than 2% made it to AR 300 the goal would be make the hunters master the hunt without putting harsh punishments that feel cheap, allow hunters to be able to reach the hardest challenge without having to do a huge grind, but also not as soon as they finish the story this is easier said than done, like ITS SO HARD however I believe they can find a decent sweet spot in wilds maybe around MR 50 to 75 to face these challenges, adding a monster or two every 5 to 10 master ranks for title updates, but the base game would need a few monsters that lead up to master rank 50 so even the casuals would reach it and experience it before dropping the game but who knows, im not a game designer im just an average hunter who hopes for the best for the series also in sha Allah at the end? I didn't know your Muslim brother! makes me happy to know your my brother!

I always thought this about Alatreon he has a amazing fight that is decently difficult but not very difficult, escaton I don't hate nor like it honestly felt like failed potential and I got a cool idea from P Malzeno from Sunbreak what if it was HARDER to suppress Alatreon HOWEVER instead of a AOE insta kill that can't be avoided what if he gets a power up that makes him go crazy from decently difficult into crack stupidly difficult he gets bigger AOEs for his AOE attacks, he gets slightly more damage, he has new cool moves that mixes the elements together and the best part is all of the elemental damage you built up until now still counters, you can still knock him away from that form, as long as you did some elemental damage it won't be impossible to knock him out of it, and even if you didn't get elemental weapon you have to survive for like maybe 3 mins then he turns back normal however he would have a big super nova finished that would be hard to avoid like the Teostra from 4U this would make Alatreon from an already amazing fight to a master piece in my opinion

Underwater combat is coming back in Wilds. So we may see these monsters again

This game is years old, its a dps check. It's not a controversy, its a mechanic. Either do the mechanic, or dont progress. There, saved everyone a lot of time and repetitive points than have been talked to death for years.

We also gonna mention that the kajar weapons require grinding lands materials to upgrade, so 50+ hours of grinding to get the weapon of the right element, then more than a dozen hours of guding lands grinding/gathering

Fights like Behemoth, Safi'jiiva, reworked Alatreon, and reworked Fatalis, that _hard require_ a specific build / team comp / strategy and have extreme DPS checks, are objectively bad design for Monster Hunter. The entire point is being able to use whatever weapons and builds and fighting style you want, while being able to overcome monsters by learning their attacks and weak points and openings, and use your skills and the experience from previous encounters to successfully hunt them. If one person wants to use Elemental weapons, and learn what monsters are weak to what elements, that's great. If someone else wants to use pure Raw weapons and win out by big flat numbers, that's great. If someone wants to use Hammer and play it dangerous by always going for the head, that's great. If someone wants to use bowguns or bows and attack from range, that's great. When a monster specifically requires the whole group to know a specific strat, how to do every phase, and have specific builds, all ahead of time, that's _bad design._ Also, unavoidable damage does not belong in Monster Hunter. Escaton Judgement is something that does not belong in the series _at all._ The point of learning monsters and gaining experience is that you can start avoiding attacks and taking more risks, and be more aggressive because you can avoid attacks.

I solo hunt Alatreon for breakfast and Fatalis for dinner.

it was omega based to make all the people that get carried in multiplayer to out themselves as shitters they are

One way to beat alatreon get good at the game

The reason why you cant use farcasters in Alatreon is pretty obvious. I you fail to break the horn Alatreon switches to the othere element, if you could just farcaster a change elemental build it would be “pointless” to break its horns making it possible to kill alatreon without the hornbreaks. Also beating Alatreon isnt hard at all if you take the time to learn his openings (which he has many, more than any other monster imo) all the people who complained just didnt take the tine to prepare and learn the fight.

Yea my biggest problem with him at release is the elemental damage thing since I’m a greatsword Main we were kinda limited in options for ice we had a literal fish lol

This was a great discussion and while I will always defend the fight and monster itself, alatreon did have issues with things like the element not being good in the rest of the game and the HR problems are genuine issues even I can't deny

Preface that I judge a fight’s balance relative to the expected gear we would have had when we first fight the monster on release. In Alatreon’s case, this means Safi or Raging Brachy/Teo or some specific set. With this said… This fight is terribly designed. I main LBG, and let me tell you that, with the exception of one very specific setup that feels terrible to play, there is no way you can have enough clip size to finish the fight without dying. That a fight necessitates any one weapon to die to beat even in ideal play is terrible design. Yes not all weapon suffers from this issue, but is one weapon suffering from this issue not already enough to signify the problem? Oh right, I did say there is one LBG setup that I’ve heard can defeat Alatreon without needing to die. Safi fire gun but you max both ice and fire attack and bring both ammo types. Subjectively, this feels terrible to play, as you have to overload elemental attack and leave no room for any personal customisation skills. Second, a more objective problem is that, this solution still involves LBG forgoing the horn break requirement. You can argue it is a sign of flexibility, but to me it feels very terrible to be forced to deal with a monster in such a convoluted way. Imagine you are blind and you slowly learn about this monster. You learn about the elemental threshold from looking at dialogue, great, so you bring elemental weapon. Then you learn that breaking the horn makes it stay in the same element, so you get better at it, only to realise doing it the normal, “elemental” way as an LBG will make you run out of ammo, so you just have to ignore the things you’ve learned and find a cheese. It sucked, hard. Oh and for those who say “use a different weapon, god forbid me for only enjoying LBG, right?

I think Escaton Judgement is essential to the experience. I wouldn’t call it artificial at all. Saying Alatreon would be pretty easy without it is reductive. Any monster would be pretty easy with 10 carts and infinite time. Escaton Judgment, its purpose, is to force players into aggressive play. Punish every attack. Alatreon's attacks are intentionally designed to be well telegraphed and have blatant safe zones to be exploited. The caveat is that he has like 50 attacks which all in some way cover the blind spots of each other when chained in succession. It is therefore up to the player to recognise this and adapt to each attack and punish Alatreon in turn. What makes Alatreon truly formidable is the lack of perceived time. Escaton Judgement and his many attacks are just catalysts for that. You are not meant to play safe, you have to take risks. It’s the same story as Fatalis. He would not be nearly as challenging if you had 50 minutes. The purpose of either fight is to make the player be proactive and discourage safe play. Alatreon can be beaten without elemental weapons too but its a lot more challenging. You'd have to truly master the fight in that case. This is essentially the core principle of MH just exacerbated to its extremes. Equipment set building to meet the occasion and truly skilled players don’t need to.

My two dislikes about EJ: 1) Alatreon elmzones are terrible while his hitzones are good, meaning we deliberately have to make choices that lower our overall DPS just to beat EJ (except IG, which can go full raw while putting in auto-attack an elemental kinsect on the arms). Pushing players to use elements by introducing a mechanic which kills you if you don't while not addressing in the slightest the reasons why players don't use elements in the first place is a receipt for outrage. Just make elements a relevant source of damage. In Iceborne, Savage Deviljho, Stygian Zinogre, normal and black Diablos are monsters against which elements can be more powerful than raw. Slow weapons should also be tuned so elements are also viable with them. This is a Pb which has been going on since the beginning of MH, yet absolutely nothing has been done to correct it. For that matter, Iceborne director thought it was a good idea to put a 0.7 multiplier on the elemental power of IG and Lance, making them even worse at elemental damage than GS and Hammer, in a game where he was trying to get players to play elemental. What the Hell? I hope MHWilds will undo these nerfs and I am glad Iceborne director is gone from the MH team (insert the tenderizing mechanic here), even if I still like a lot MHWI. 2) The fact that Alatreon can still shift to its opposite active, even after both horns are broken. Essentially, this is a DPS check within a partbreak check within a DPS check, which is just silly. Sure, Alatreon is most likely near death and, yes, an experienced player can beat Alatreon solo before he can swap (or even before he can fire a second EJ). But Alatreon is balanced around Kjarr and Safi weapons. Safi'jiiva is forced multiplayer. Solo players would spend a year farming for his armor and weapons because of the energy drain being balanced around 16 players. For players on console who didn't pay for the PS+/Xbox live, Safi weapons/armor are off the table. In my opinion, MR Kulve Taroth DPS check is even harder than EJ. When I first fought Alatreon, Frostfang Barioth was not here yet, and I couldn't pass the first phase of MR Kulve Taroth (I didn't know what the check was. A partbreak check as the NPC said? A damage check? Once I figured out it was a DPS check with partbreaking extending the timer, then I built accordingly and killed MR Kulve Taroth on the first try, but it was well after Alatreon and I had to get the infos about the DPS check on the internet due to how bad and misleading it was presented in the game). My only options were the Beotodus weapons, which are severely lacking in raw, meaning Alatreon had enough HP to switch to Ice active, then kill me with the next EJ (for my first kill, Alatreon shifted two times to Ice active, each times killing me with the next EJ, and was in Ice active mode for the third time when he finally died). Alatreon is my favorite fight in the series, but if he returns, I hope elemental damage will be reworked so using elements against Alatreon is not a necessary handicap to not be killed by EJ. Maybe making EJ a temporary damage boost for Alatreon to the point his elemental attacks can OS you (like Fatalis blue fire) should you fail to meet the check would be better.

He's a good fight, but he's just too stressful, you have a time limit over a time limit over a limited amount of horn breaks and all his attacks are 1 shots, it's insufferable Legit I was wearing fire resistance gear and his fire attacks would just DESTROY me, the Escaton was the LEAST scary move somehow

I dont get why its hard tho.... unless u dont have a proper set, often saw player even high level still dun understand proper skill mechanic , using crap skill set to hunt , not to mention new player which MR 24 trying to hunt down a monster that require a proper armour skill set, i think capcom shouldnt set the MR requirement to MR24 , it should be atleast MR 100-150

Alatreon would've 100% be a much better fight in Sunbreak, just from how much better information and elemental support you can get in the game.

Hate this fight.

Yea im no expert here so i cant say for sure, but i really enjoy this game and i have around 600hs played. I really enjoy watching the true pros on youtube and learning about the game, my point being, elemental damage is not nearly as bad as it is said on the video, of course weapons like GS, hammer and low motion weapons are better with raw dmg, but DB or Bow are way waaay stringer with elemental dmg, you can feel the difference in a pretty big way. Im a bow main and fatalis weapons makes raw dmg more acceptable, but no way is better than element

I would love the iceborn Alatreon fight if it weren't for escaton judgment like 9/10 hard but fair fight would kill with a great sword again. Escaton makes me go nah ill just go fight fatalis again

My only complaint about the Alatreon fight was his target prioritization and a lot of his attacks constantly moving him around the place. I didn’t mind the DPS check. It was simply ensuring you could land hits and heal when you needed to that I struggled with.

Great video, but small correction, you said the only way to get critical element is to equip silver Rahtalos armor, that is true for "True Critical Element", normal critical element also comes with velkhana armor and basically all rath armors, not only silver I believe. Just a tiny point in a otherwise great video :)

Funny on the timing of this video, I JUST made a rant video about me and my hunting groups first encounter with Alatreon lol. But I totally agree with you here. We all started in Rise and I don’t think there’s a single monster in that game that really forced us to learn the fight to the extent World Alatreon did. A lot of people in the community I’ve heard call this “The monster hunter moment” and Alatreon definitely gave me mine. I went from dying to him within the first 3 minutes of the fight to being able to beat him solo and cartless. A part of me wonders if this is why world fans say Rise was “too easy” because Monster Hunter is very much a game where your character isn’t leveling up, but in fact, you are. So once you’ve gained that experience, you can’t simply unlearn it. Just a random thought since Rise was my first game and I felt I was challenged quite a bit. Overall great video and very well researched. It helped someone like me who wasn’t there for the initial release of World Alatreon understand the history of why he review bombed the game, yet still made the top 10 in the MH poll. PS: Unironically, I find the Dawn’s Triumph version of Alatreon harder than the real deal in multiplayer. My best guess are these are players who couldn’t beat the initial encounter and proceeded to move on. So even if it’s a bite size version of the full quest, to me it’s clear the developers still want you to have a concept of how to defeat a monster like Alatreon before facing Fatalis.

A few other points to add. - In MHW, there's a cap to the increase of elemental damage you can get, making it worthless to invest skills/decorations to max out the element skill. More often than not, getting to level 3 or 4 is enough. - Since World was the MH game to break out to the wider audience, plenty of new comers weren't familiar with Alatreon, and also managed to get through the game just by hitting the monster enough times to kill it. - It's highly likely that those who complained about Alatreon are similar people who complain about Elden Ring's DLC.

I still think Alatreon itself isnt the problem Its more so available equipment in 5th Gen is kinda garbage being more like MMO Progression rather than how previous Gen does it so everyone gets too used on using Raw and Blast because its the only good thing they could get Element being pretty bad in World didnt help either Now i dont think Alatreon didnt deserve to be criticized, oh no he does, but is he really as bad as *Clutchclaw Tenderizing and Wall slam?* I personally think the controversy about Alatreon is exagurated when Alatreon itself isnt the problem, more so how 5th Gen and Iceborne itself being a ridicilously dumb game